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tv   The Last Word With Lawrence O Donnell  MSNBC  September 14, 2015 10:00pm-11:01pm PDT

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hanging from bicycles, fancy champagne glass on yuns and part of me thinks he's going to off theon yun for a while. you can find me on facebook.com/ari mel ber right now. now that's time for "the last word with lawrence o'donnell." >> we're really killing it. >> donald trump is taking his political show to dallas. >> we're going to have so many victories. they're going to be coming out of your years. >> braggy, brash and self-important. those are considered virtues in texas. >> i have a little debate coming up. >> who can we expect to lead the charge against trump? >> i hear they're all going after me. whatever.
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whatever. >> it's so hard to attack donald trump because he's not playing by the rules. >> he picked a fight with carly fiorina's face. >> i am proud of every year and every were. >> mr. trump, i'd rather you stop cherishing us and respecting us instead. >> republicans cheer trump and carson. >> i don't think ben has the energy. >> you don't have to be loud to be energetic. >> the latest person to take on donald trump, state police alabama. >> i think he's an entertainer. >> i agree. my question is, when is the show over? >> arnold schwarzenegger is going to take over as the new host of "celebrity apprentice." >> replaces donald trump. is he replaceable. >> you're fired. ing >> we now know what donald trump's concession speech is going to say when he finally loses his campaign to be president of the united states. he will tell us it's been a total waste of time.
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>> i haven't won. there's been no victory. unless i win, it's been a total waste of time, i'll be honest with you. i really mean that too. >> that was donald trump tonight in texas where he gloetd as usual about the latest polls. >> i went up to 40% today in new hampshire. you saw that. 40%. second, second is i think 11 or 12, right? 11 or 12. and i won't mention names because he's actually a nice guy. i'll mention names. why shouldn't i? should i? it's ben carson. he's a nice man. i think he's in second place. i'm at 40%. ben carson, good guy, i think
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he's 11 or 12 and here's the headline. carson surging. i said what about me? >> the first cbs news poll of new hampshire republicans shows donald trump at his highest number yet in a new hampshire poll, 40%. carson at 12%, john kasich running third at 9% with carly fiorina at 8% and jeb bush all the way down at 6% tied with rand paul. tonight in texas, donald trump told his audience a fairy tale that he likes to tell most of his audiences. >> what would president trump do? president trump? trump, trump, trump. what would president trump do? so i called the head of ford or whatever company. i called the head of ford. i'd say congratulations. i understand you're building a massive plant in mexico an you're taking a lot of jobs away from us in michigan and other
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places. i don't like that. i don't like it. i just don't like it. and he'll say, well, mr. president, it's wonderful. wonderful for the economy. oh, great, just great. it's wonderful for whose economy? not for our economy. what i'd say is the following, i don't want you to do that. if you do it, you're not going to have any cars coming across the border unless you pay a 35% tax. that's it. no, that's it. and they're going to say, they're going to say to me, mr. president, please, please, please. i guarantee you, let's say i make this call at 9:00 in the morning, by 5:00 in the afternoon, i think the deal is done. they move back to the united states. >> donald trump and his audiences do not seem to know in the imagined scenario of president trump in action, he would not be able to do any of that. he first of all, of course, would have to repeal nafta which would require bipartisan vote in the united states senate, a vote
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in the house of representatives. he would have to get congress to pass a whole new law since the 35% tariff he dreams about is not a presidential power. that's something only congress krk impose. so the challenge more moderators wednesday night will be trying to force donald trump out of that kind of realm of fantasy and force him to acknowledge at least some of the realities of actually governing, no one questioning trump has been able to do that yet. but wednesday night, will that be the night when the other candidates finally start fact checking the front-runner. joining us now, sam stein, senior politics editor and white house correspondent for the "huffington post." he's also an msnbc analyst. maria, host of changing america on shift by msnbc and david frum former speechwriter and senior editor for the atlantic. sam stein, the fairy tales that
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donald trump tells in any one of those speeches are so many and so long that the media has given up on them. no one is bothering to work on the innards of those fairy tales and try to take them apart for audiences. do you think any of the candidates will try to do that on the is taken and do you expect that the debate moderators have a chance of fashioning some kind of question that boxes him into reality? >> you're the exception to the rule, lawrence. you fact checked him on this a couple times as i remember. >> i do it just as an example because he tells these kinds of stories all the time. i don't mean to harp on it. it's one of the easiest once to demonstrate. >> there's so many of them. the universe is so vast you try to fact check one and he's on to another. my favorite is my colleague pointed out he was against account iraq war in 2004. the war was a year owed by the time that he spoke out against the iraq war. no one has in the moment of the interview fact checked that.
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to answer your question, i do think there is a potential for a moment like that to happen whether it comes from a fellow candidate or the moderator. i mean, they're basically previewing the fact they're going to pile on the guy anyway. so perhaps they make it less personal, more policy oriented. you could easily ask the question, what if congress couldn't go along to any of this. his agenda is premised on the idea he can make things happen on a whim when in fact as we know about washington, it's a grinding battle with congress. >> david frum, if you ask him about congress not going along, he will just say i will get them to go along. il force them and they'll do it in five minutes, they'll do it by the end of the day. >> the united states are filled with people making large promises. most of them don't go on to be the front-runner for a major political party. why do one within set of incredible promises get traction
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when others don't? he's selling something which resonates with people. here's this is had successful person who says i'm going to take your concerns to heart. i don't think you're going to get far by proving he's wronging about this or that because he's competing with a bevy of people in both parties who a lot of americans think that they don't really have my interests at heart. even though they may be, quote unquote, factually correct that that factual correctness is sort of an excuse, a justification for the fact they don't want to help me and this guy at least seems to want to. that's very powerful. >> let's listen to what he said tonight once again about babies of immigrant parents being born in the united states. >> i don't mean to be disrespectful. but when a man has a problem, and he's got his wife or his girlfriend and they move her over to the border for one day, has the baby on the other side of the border, our side, now
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that baby is a citizen of our country for however long the baby lives. hopefully a long -- it's wrong. it's wrong. >> we have now the clearest reading yet in a poll how that's working with latino voters. this is an msnbc marist telemundo poll. feelings toward donald trump among latinos 70% negative. 60% of that very negative. and maria komar. >> is that bad? >> here's what is might it be bad about it, sam. no one has come up with a math mathematical route to the presidency that allows you to have that kind of negative number with latino numbers. maria teresa, some of the polling i think has been too indirect about this. this is the very clear answer. feelings toward toward donald trump 70% negative. >> i have to say that the fact that you can be in l.a. or
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colorado in the middle of the day and you have bilingual radio hosts going after donald trump, you know you're in trouble. these are folks that usually don't pay attention till the very end and they're paying attention now. what worries me and worries a lot of folks is the tone that he's talking about when it comes to american latinos. these are americans. the tone in which all of a sudden his crowd starts booing, you're creating this divisive nature within the party. the republican party regardless whether donald trump rises or falls, that's the damage he's doing right now is the perception of the gop among latino households is very, very poor. whoever is going to be able to get them out of that hole will be someone that has a shot at the white house but a real long shot at the white house. >> maria teresa, do you expect a residual effect here that would hurt the republican nominee? >> absolutely. the very fact that you have the head of the rnc basically not going against trump but if
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anything having him sign a commitment he will support whoever runs, you're basically saying that whatever trump does, he's the one that's going to be the front-runner and basically he's leading the party. i have a hard time finding anyone with the exception i would say of kasich. he's been playing this very, very well threading the needle when people ask him about immigration. he doesn't say no and at the same time he doesn't say yes. everybody else you've caught them with their hand in the cookie jar trying to remove birth right citizenships. there's very few of the republican nominees that have the shot at the latino vote with the exception of kasich at this time. >> we have to take a quick break. when we come back, joe biden had a secret meeting here in new york city last week, a meeting that could be very important to a biden presidential campaign. john heilemann broke that story this morning. he will join us next. right on cue. [cat meows] ♪meow, meow, meow, meow... it's more than just a meal, it's meow mix mealtime. with great taste and 100% complete nutrition,
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tonight george will explain to fox news viewer it is bernie sanders is a socialist then everyone in washington is a socialist.
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>> caucuses with the democrats, he gets his committee assign lts from the democrats, he votes with the democrats. and he's seeking the nomination of guess what, the democratic party. then he says he's a socialist. no, no. mr. carbon in london, that's a socialist. he wants the government to own the commanding heights of the economy. mr. sanders is called a socialist because he believes in what everybody votes for every year when they vote for a budget, the entitlement structure of the united states. >> and, yes, that would mean that donald trump is a socialist, too, because he also does not want to get rid of social security and medicare and any of those programs that george will was just talking about. john heilemann is next with details on a secret meeting that could be a big help to joe biden's presidential campaign. (vo) what does the world run on?
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...in this big, bold, beautiful world. joe biden picked up a big endorsement of sorts last week. >> i just want to say that i think that your experience and your example of suffering and service is something that would be sorely missed in the race. not that there aren't good people on both sides running, but i think we would all be very happy if you did run and if you don't, i know that your service to the country is something we should all salute. thank you so much. thank you. >> thank you. >> ladies and gentlemen, vice president joe biden.
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>> the morning after stephen colbert encouraged joe biden to run for president joe biden had a secret meeting in new york city that could be critical to a biden for president campaign. that meeting is no long area secret thanks to a report by john heilemann in bloomberg politics. joining us now conveniently is john heilemann, managing editor of bloomberg politics and journalist for "new york" magazine. tell us about it. >> well, you've got biden giving this performance on colbert where his anguish and strug with the emotional burdens he's dealing with, trying to decide if he's going to run gave to a lot of people the impression that i'm not going to be able to do this. 12 hours later in his hotel room in midtown manhattan he invites robert wolfe, big investment banker, huge obama bundler in 2008, 2012, someone who split -- did not go the way of the rest of the wall street and did not go with the clinton thing in 2008, sided with obama.
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close personal friends with obama, rare with wall street people in obama's term. publicly for the clintons currently, for hillary clinton, but has not raised any money for her yet. all he's done is written her a check. if you're thinking about, if you're joe biden, you need to raise some money and you would really like to get some defections from clinton world this is maybe the kind of guy you want to see. this meeting takes place 90 minutes, just the two of them, no ask is made but a lot of discussion of family. >> you talked to -- >> kind of -- >> meeting with them. >> yes. i talked to robert wolfe about it and he won firmed that it happened. he said that biden did not definitively say that he was running. he made no direct ask. as you know, lawrence, in politics you don't start to make the ask until you're in. joe biden does not know yet. >> also, all we know about this discussion is what he told about this discussion. they could have planned out the whole financial structure of the biden campaign. >> entirely possible.
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if you think about joe biden at this moment awaiting this decision makes this guy to a guy he barely knows, both of them understanding what it would mean if robert wolfe were to side with biden. both because it would be a repudiation of hillary clinton but because everyone in the political world would assume and correctly that wolfe would never do this without the blessing of president obama because they are so close. it would be a huge symbolic get. in addition to all the money it would mean. >> my attitude about these things is that announcement day is one of the least important moments in a campaign. >> right. >> that if decision to run is made years before announcements usually. >> right. >> my belief has been joe biden is run for president, has been run for president, four years. sometimes very rarely the candidate never gets to the announcement because something derails the campaign before the announcement. like, for example, if hillary clinton was running 75% in the
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democratic polls right now. that would have closed off the biden plan to run for president. but that's not what we're seeing. >> i believe that joe biden in the summer of 2013 had decide he was going to run in 2016. >> i think before that. but go ahead. >> but he was decided. >> yes. >> i'm going to run. >> right. >> and then his son beau got sick, diagnose with cancer that august. and that human thing threw off everybody's timetable. >> absolutely. >> people did not know whether he would survive and if he did how long it would take. it was all on hold. and then beau expired tragically, of course, and suddenly the window is now open. the possibility is now on the table. it's not too late to get in. if you're looking at what's happening to hillary clinton's campaign, you're looking at the general atmosphere of politics in america right now where authenticity is prized more than ever. his people and vice president are looking at donald trump and seeing encouraging signs in that
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because here is a guy who is rising unexpectedly on the basis of telling it like it is and it's showing that the atmosphere right now, there's this greater tolerance for the kinds of screw-ups that the vice president has been famous for. you can make mistakes, donald trump is showing us, and still do well in this world where people just want the awe then tick. that to biden, is like, hey, there's something in that for me. >> i want to clarify. i think with the death of his son he rethought everything in his life. rethought whether he could continue to go to work as vice president. >> and still is. >> and i think where we are now is back with his original decision which is made years ago that of course he should run for president. he will be positioned to do that. and i think what we're seeing now is simply him airing out a lot of the thought process much of which he's already gone through, especially when you consider that one of the very first entries in this whole story was this quote in maureen
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dodd's column about beau biden literally on his death bed asking his father to run for president. >> beau biden in 2012, in 2013 told me he wanted his father to run for president. that meant a lot to joe biden back then. it meant a lot to him in that death bed moment which is true and did happen. he is still grappling with this other thing, which is not just his grief but with the fact that joe biden is, as a very close friend of his put it to me, an old-fashioned patriarch. he sees his primary duty of caring for his family. his wife jill, his sister valerie, his -- the daughter-in-law now widow, beau's former life. his grandchildren. he does not know whether they are ready. even though they say they are prepared. in the end if he does not run i think it's because he sees his primary duty to take care of
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them. he believes he's more qualified than anybody in the democratic party to be president, including hillary clinton. he believes he has things to offer she can never offer. he believes in a lot of ways this is his time. everyone around him, even those who will tell you they would not be surprised if he run or doesn't run, everyone around him says over the last month he has gotten every day closer to running. he is more gung ho now than yesterday or the day before that and the day before that. the momentum is towards yes. >> and he may have lined up some real money the other day. >> that would be the important thing. >> john heilemann, thank you very much. appreciate it. >> always happy to be here, lawrence. coming up, a new poll shows joe biden doing better than hillary clinton against republican candidates. of danger from virtually anywhere. it's been smashed, dropped and driven.
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my mom had an expression. she would say, as long as you're alive, you have an obligation to strive and you're not dead until you've seen the face of god. >> run for president may be the only way that joe biden can keep striving. if he does run for president he's going to have to find room in a field that includes two candidates who are already pulling strongly, hillary clinton and bernie sanders. today bernie sanders made an 57 experience at liberty university founded by reverend jerry falwell, a place familiar to republican candidates but rarely visited by democrats.
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>> let me be frank, as i said a moment ago. i understand that the issues of abortion and gay marriage are issues that you feel very strongly about. we disagree on those issues. i get that. but let me respectfully suggest that there are other issues out there that are of enormous consequence to our country and, in fact, to the entire world, that maybe, just maybe, we do not disagree on. and maybe, just maybe, we can try to work together to resolve them. >> here's what hillary clinton said today about the competition for the democratic presidential nomination. >> i don't have any issue what whatever in having a really good, strong contest for the democratic nomination.
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we're going to have some debates and we'll be able to talk about where we agree and where we disagree. i think that will help voters make up their minds. >> we're back with sam stein, maria, and david frum. we have a new "washington post"/abc poll. hillary clinton is at 42%. bernie sanders at 24%. and including joe biden at 21%. and, sam stein, that's joe biden at 21% without having done a thing. i suppose it's two ways to look at it. he doesn't done anything about he's at 21%. the other thing to look at it is he's the vice president of the united states and he's only 21%. >> the third way to look at it is once he gets in the race and involved in politics and campaigning, you know, it's very reasonable to conclude his numbers might go down like hillary's have. you see comparisons of him and her against the gop field and he always does significantly better. i think because in part he
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hasn't been part of partisan politics. i think her numbers are -- i'm of the belief of the razor theory about hillary clinton, her numbers are dipping because of one basic thing, the only story that people are hearing about her has to do with her handling of her e-mails at the state department. and so as long as this is in the news, yes, there is an opening for joe biden. like you said, 21% is that a floor or ceiling? i'm not entirely sure. >> you mentioned the way they do against the republicans. joe biden against donald trump in this poll, 56% to 38%. hillary clinton to donald trump is 50% to 44%. so it goes. generally joe biden does slightly better one or two cases significantly better against hillary clinton or the other democrats. that has to be the biden argument if he's having, you know, secret meetings with campaign financers. here, looking at this, look at this general election match-up.
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>> well, i know robert wolfe. he's someone that loves to be in the political mix. that's what he enjoys. that's not surprising that's one of the first people biden would go to. not only is he resourceful. for him it's an opportunity to see where is biden and the bigger landscape. the type of signal that joe biden, the vice president biden is sending to the larger folks within the clinton world. and i think that's what -- if anything, that's what she should be worried about. there are a lot of folks who still haven't written their checks to hillary clinton. and they're trying to see, well, let's just wait and see. will the other shoe drop? i think that's what biden is waiting for. he is waiting for the other shoe to drop. that's when he jumps in. it takes a lot of money to run for office but it also takes infrastructure. >> david frum, there's no one in a better position to get that stuff started quickly than a vice president, especially one who knows the machinery having run twice. >> especially one who is in a party that's confronting the vulnerability of the previous front-runner.
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sam said the economical theory to say it must be the e-mail weighing hillary down. i don't think that's right. just think of a few blocks ago talking about donald trump. every day there is some big story, negative story about donald trump. it bounces off him. when people have decided they're going to trust you, that you're on their side, they can ignore a lot. when they don't make that decision, a story about e-mails which i think probably many people who watch this network would regard as trivial is none the less crushing hillary clinton's support among democrats. what is most striking to me is against men. hillary clinton has made the opposite mistake of donald trump. she assumed it is cost free to run a campaign that says i'm running as a woman for women in the interest of women, and vote for me because i'm a woman. one of my merits is that i'm a woman. that would not have a consequence for people on the other side of the ledger. it looks like it is having a consequence.
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>> if that was her actually campaign slogan, that would be a terrible slogan. that's not her campaign slogan. >> it's not her slogan, it's her message. things ask be your message without being a slogan. >> women outperform men at the polls. she's trying to embrace it. when you have a misogynist on the republican side it's easier to embrace it. >> her problem is with her own party where she is sinking day by day, week by week. >> lawrence is was saying with the exception of bernie sanders there's no opposition. she's having a really hard time breaking into the news cycle because every day it's trump. her biggest challenge is actually having someone to talk away from the e-mails and she brings out a policy position practically every single week and no one is talking about her policy positions. >> when we talk about donald trump saying things or getting in trouble and having it bounce off him, let's just remember that donald trump's polling number is nowhere near hillary clinton's polling number. and if hillary clinton ever fell down to the donald trump level,
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that would be in the polls, that would be a serious crisis for the clinton campaign. >> look at the trajectory. look at the -- look at what is happening. again, donald trump is not going to be the republican nominee. just comparison. look at hillary's downward trajectory. why? democrats in the 1990s were able to shake off much more scandals involving her husband, seemed to be weighing down by these scandals involving her. why? >> i don't disagree. i don't disagree with david here. i think the simplest explanation is the e-mails. there are other contributing factors, of course. but when you bring up trajectory you do have to start with where they actually started. she started at astronomical highs and he started at dismal lows. that helped contribute to the trajectory. on the other hand, i think we do need to take a deep breath. this is still early september. anyone who studies the polling data will tell you that these things change. i don't need to go into all the people who were up at this point
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in time in past cycles because it's a list of losers. so i think we should just step back for a second. the big problem that hillary has, as i was saying at the beginning, she desperately wants to change the conversation. putting up policy papers was one way to do it. it hasn't really worked in this media climate. there isn't anything until mid october when she goes before the benghazi committee that will allow her to pivot away from the conversation. that's pretty far away. >> all right. sam stein gets the last word on it tonight. >> yes. >> sam stein, and sam stein is always the happiest to get the last word. >> thank you. >> sam, thank you for joining us. >> thank you all for joining us tonight. up next, kentucky county clerk kim davis goes back to work and she has decided she's definitely not going back to jail.
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her deputy clerks chose to issue the marriage licenses instead of going to jail themselves. when kim davis was released her attorney said he wasn't sure what she would do when she went back to work. the judge in effect threatened her with a return to jail if she tried to interfere with her assistant clerk's issuing same-sex marriage licenses and so today kim davis stood by and watched 21st century marriage proceed in rowan county, kentucky, where she announced she planned to spend her workday doing next to nothing. >> to affix my name or authority tive title on a certificate that authorizes marriage that conflicts with god's definition of marriage as a union between one man and one woman violates my deeply held religious convictions and conscience. for me this would be a act of disobedience to my god. i don't want to have this conflict.
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i don't want to be in the spotlight. and i certainly don't want to be a whipping post. i am no hero. this morning i am forced to fashion a remedy that reconciles my conscience with the orders. effective immediately and until an accommodation is provided by those with the authority to provide it, any marriage license issued by my office will not be issued or authorized by me. i, too, have grave doubts whether the licenses issued under these conditions are valid. >> they said there is no need to call a special session of the kentucky state legislature to accommodate kim davis and said that the licenses issued without her signature are, of course, valid. since kim davis' arrest her deputy clerk brian mason has issued a dozen licenses, eight of those two same-sex couples. up next, the newest candidate in the race for the
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with squarespace. you need a president and i am volunteering who will appoint supreme court justices who will overturn citizens united. >> that's not what campaign finance reform sounds like from the democratic presidential front-runner. here's what it sounds like from the republican front-runner tonight in texas. >> i'm self funding my campaign. i'm not taking all of this blood money. i'm not doing it. i'm not doing it. and i feel a little bit awkward and a little stupid. i have guys offering me millions
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and millions of dollars. you know, when you're in number one place then the blood suckers come out. the lobbyists, the special interests, the donors. don, we love you. guys you haven't heard from in ten years. i turned down $5 million last week. $5 million. i can't take it. i just close my eyes. it's really sort of not natural to me to turn down money. but i turn it down. because once i know the game, once they give you, you sort of owe them. >> the newest candidate for president is the ultimate cause candidate, the cause being campaign finance reform, harvard law school professor announced his candidacy for the democratic presidential nomination with the promise if elected he will resign and hand the presidency to the vice president as soon as he passed a new law on campaign financing. joining us now is presidential candidate lawrence lessing. so tell us about how your
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proposal would change campaign financing? >> welt, let's call it what it is. it's not campaign finance. it's democracy. right? the problem with our democracy right now is we have concentrated the influence into a tiny, tiny number of people. 400 families have given half the money in this presidential election cycle so far, creating a system where nothing can get done because there's always enough of these big funders to block any change. what we've got is a democracy that does not work. what we need first is to change the rules so we can get a democracy that works. when bernie or hillary talks about the fantastic things they're going to do, things that excite me, too, it's even credible because right now it's not credible. the system cannot work so long as we are captured. >> is it credible when hillary clinton says i want supreme court justices who will overturn citizens unites? >> she can certainly appoint those people. and those people would overturn
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citizens united. that will not solve the problem. the problem is the way we fund campaigns. citizens united created the super pac which is another layer on that problem but we've got to address the fundamental problem which is the fact the tiniest number of people are dependent upon to fund these campaigns. members of congress spend 30% to 70% of their time raising money. >> how do you change it? >> it takes, first, a system of small dollar public funding. new york has with matching funds for electing city officials or vouchers where you could give -- >> your can do this stuff without constitutional? >> perfectly constitutional. we could do this tomorrow. they would not be bending over backwards to address the interest of their few funders. they would instead be focused on -- >> could we still have the board billionaire enter the race and
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self fund and outspend everyone else? >> right now we could. it's a terrifying prospect because of course, you know -- >> unless you like the billionaire. unless it's a billionaire you agree with. >> let's imagine that trump donald trump is president. >> how are we going to do this, to for a minute. >> 37 seconds. donald trump imagines the last election cycle he's going to spend a billion dollars to take out every one of the opponents to what donald trump wants. very quickly we have a system thatting loos a little bit like current russia. we have a system where the power of this one finance sheer can radically change the way american democracy works. we've got to change that. we've got to get democracy back. donald trump's solution to the problem he's identified and he's rightly identified it, is that we just have billionaires running our government. but i believe we had a revolution about that idea. right? we said that the aristocrats should go home and have a representative democracy where,
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in fact, all of us are equal citizens in that democracy. we have nothing close to that right now. >> would your system allow the self funder? >> we can't change that until we address the constitution. >> that's where you get into the first amendment. >> that's right. >> the problem -- explain why you say you want to run for president, you want to do this giant thing which would be a huge accomplishment. why that who did that amazing thing should then quit the job? why wouldn't we want that president who did what everyone said was impossible to stay on the job? >> it's the dilemma or frotto. if you're doing tv enough power to take on the most powerful people in washington, to force that congress to finally give the american people what the american people demanding, you have to focus the mandate on this single issue. if i ran for president like bernie sanders is and talked
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about seven or eight things that i'm going to do, everything from dealing with immigration, dealing with student loan, dealing with climate change. then the mandate of that president is split among all those separate issues. and then when he comes in and he says i want to take on the problem of money in washington, then the lobbyists say, no, no, no, bernie, you were here to deal with the problem of climate change or you were here -- so these power, his capacity to take on these incredibly important issues gets divided. what i'm saying if we can concentrate the mandate so there's no ambiguity. here's why this president is here. and then that president achieves that single thing, which is to get us our democracy, fix the democracy, then turn this over to someone like bernie or hillary who has 10 or 12 great ideas of what they would like to do they would have a chance to do those great things because we would have a democracy that would be responsive to the people. right now we don't. the biggest empirical study of actual decisions by our government finds there is no
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relationship between what the average voter wants and what our government does. there's a tight relationship between what the elite want, the economic elite want and what our government does and what special interests groups wants and what the government it is but there's no relationship with the average voter. that's because the basic mechanism of this representative democracy has been lost. and until we fix that we will not get these other great fantastic ideas. that's why ihink we have to focus on this reform first and get a reform that could make democracy possible. >> nothing could prove your commitment to cause more than i will resign as soon as that cause is achieved. i'm not in this for the president glory and then -- which makes the vice president debate really interesting because they're going to have to cover all the subjects you're refusing to talk about. >> i'm happy to talk about this and say what the right answer is and then to show you why this right answer is nothing we can get until we fix this point up. >> thank you very much for joining us.
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really appreciate you coming in. coming up, nbc's richard engel has the latest offen the serbian border where armed guards are preventing migrants from earning the european union. when you're not confident you have complete visibility into your business, it can quickly become the only thing you think about. that's where at&t can help. at&t's innovative solutions connect machines and people...
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richard engel will bring us the latest on the european migrant crisis next. this kid makes stains like you would not believe so when we had him, we bought one of those he washing machines but it took forever turns out it wasn't the machine, it was our detergent.
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do we have a moral responsibility to work with the rest of the world in providing help, bringing some of those participate into this country? the answer is absolutely yes. absolutely yes. >> tonight hungary closed its border fence using a rail container lined top to bottom with razor wire. nbc's richard engel is in serbia with the latest will this is the serbian side of the hungarian border. today hungary and several other european countries took dramatic
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steps to try and reduce the flows of refugees who have been pouring into europe. with a deadline looming, refugees streamed toward hungary today. at 6:00 p.m. just hours before the border was scheduled to close, they began to run. but they were too late. hungarian police had blocked the border. they tell mohammed to try another gate, so he, his wife sfa, eight months pregnant with twin, their 5-year-old zana, begin to walk. mohammed, a syrian, tells me if they're sent back they have nowhere to go. their house in aleppo was bombed. climbing under a fence the family is confronted by another shock. the second crossing is blocked, too. >> you cannot imagine what i feel. i don't know. now i have no feeling at all. i'm surprised. i'm shocked. >> reporter: many fear their dream of reaching wealthy europe
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is over. suddenly cheers erupt. an opening. >> people only have a hope. nothing else. they hope now they will open the doors for them. that's why everybody run. maybe they will do nothing. >> maybe. they're not giving a lot of information. they're not giving any information. the police were allowing people in. just a few at a time. mohammed crams in to line, pregnant sfa is pressed up against a fence. temporarily separated, the family eventually makes it through where they will end up though is far from certain. the river of refugees runs north from syria through turkey, greece, hungary, all of the way to germany and sweden. today hungary put up a partial dam, so did several other countries. tonight this narrow fenced in path leads to europe. and they are lining up to squeeze through because no one knows when the gate will close again.
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lawrence, the lack of information here has been a big problem. the hungarian authorities haven't been saying much. serbian haven't been saying much. there are not be arabic language translators here. most of them speak arabic. they don't know if this border is going to open tomorrow, for how long, will people who are syrian be given preferential treatment will, families be getting preferential treatment? what we know now is that the border the closed. it's expected to reopen tomorrow. and there is a funnel effect here. what has been for weeks and months an enormous river of migrants flowing all of the way from the middle east into europe has been reduced to one passageway in this gate, a passageway that is three shoulder widths wide and that is the only route left, legal route left into hungary. it is expected in the coming days and weeks from now there will be very large crowds gathered here trying to get in
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to hungary and then deeper into europe. lawrence? >> richard engel, thanks. chris hayes is up next. republicans cheer trump and carson makes chumps of the rest. let's play "hardball." good evening, i'm chris matthews in washington. we are waiting to hear donald trump address a massive crowd in dallas. the big news tonight is trump and dr. ben carson are killing the republican establishment. it's a wipeout with the two outsiders, neither with any past elective role in government winning a majority support. it's all in a

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